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Regarding the shoe-pack.
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Le Loup
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:06 am    Post subject: Regarding the shoe-pack. Reply with quote

Thanks for all the help re the shoe-pack, I have all the info I need.
Regards, Le Loup.


Last edited by Le Loup on Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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LRB
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 260

Real Name: WICK ELLERBE

PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That seems to be about it, except for references to home made shoes, which most consider to be acual shoes, only homemade. I recently read that a shoemaker in Old Salem was making these a few years ago, and the shoemaker said he was making them in the manner that a colonist might make them for himself, and claiming that to be a common practice among common folk. However, it would have to be doubtful that the Ft. Legionaire shoe moc, shoe pack, would be the only pair ever made. I made a pair a few years back and liked them for cold weather.
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J.D.
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Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 38
Location: East MO
Real Name: John Dearing

PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to remember mention of a shoepack found in the wall of a house in Illinois. I don't remember any details, nor do I remember the source of that information.

God bless,
J.D.
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Le Loup
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:23 pm    Post subject: Shoe-packs and homemade shoes. Reply to Wick and J.D. Reply with quote

Many thanks Wick & J.D. , much appreciated. Any feedback is always worthwhile.
Le loup.
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Michael Archer
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 290
Location: West of Fort Pitt
Real Name: Curt Schmidt

PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How d' ye!

As shared, there is the excavated Ligonier specimen and Klinger's misinterpretation of it in "Sketchbook '76."



There is the verbal description of essentially what some call an "inserted tongue center seam mocassin" found in Doddridge.

There is the sketch of the "Virginia hunter's mocassin and diagram.



There are several accounts that mention the name 'shoe pack' without description.

Beyond that, there are endless campfire and online discussions as to what the Liognier artifact actually is- "shoe pack," "white man mocassin,"
barrack overshoe, etc., and the merits and pitfalls of using a single dateable but not understood artifact for so many lad's recreated footwear.

;) :)

Michael Archer

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Le Loup
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Michael Archer"]How d' ye!

As shared, there is the excavated Ligonier specimen and Klinger's misinterpretation of it in "Sketchbook '76."

[img]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/Ligoniermoc.jpg[/img]

There is the verbal description of essentially what some call an "inserted tongue center seam mocassin" found in Doddridge.

There is the sketch of the "Virginia hunter's mocassin and diagram.

[img]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/ScanImage003.jpg[/img]

There are several accounts that mention the name 'shoe pack' without description.

Beyond that, there are endless campfire and online discussions as to what the Liognier artifact actually is- "shoe pack," "white man mocassin,"
barrack overshoe, etc., and the merits and pitfalls of using a single dateable but not understood artifact for so many lad's recreated footwear.

;) :)

Michael Archer[/quote]

Michael you are an absolute treasure, well done. Now I better understand what this shoe-pack is and why it is so vaguely reported. I have been sewing an extra sole on some of my moccasins for years, not to make them easier to walk in, because I do not have any problem after wearing them for so long, but simply to make them last longer in between repairs. I was not intending to make and wear shoe-packs, I was just interested to see what they were and how they were made. I am quite happy with my centre seam woodland moccasins.
Thanks again Michael, very much appreciated.
With Respect & Regards, Le Loup.
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Bovine Scatoligist
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to remember mention of a shoepack found in the wall of a house in Illinois. I don't remember any details, nor do I remember the source of that information.

God bless,
J.D.


What J.D. may be refering to is a shoepack found in New York. It is shown in"The Frontier Rifleman" by Richard B. LaCross Jr.isbn 0-913150-57-6 on page91. It looks pretty much like a center seam w/ an extra sole sewn on.On page 92 is the Ft.Ligonier one. Mark Baker shows making a pair in his "The Pilgrims Journey" Vol1 and in his videos. I have made a summer & a winter pair based loosly on the Ligonier and Baker's work. They are very comfortable and the winter ones are warm down to 17 degrees so far! Hope some of this helps.Good luck. [/quote]
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Le Loup
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:03 am    Post subject: Double-sole moccasins. Reply with quote

Thanks. I have 4 pairs of moccasins, as I wear moccasins all the time. I found it easier to sew another sole onto my centre seam moccasins than make a pair of shoe-packs.
I have sewn a double sole on before of course, but not with this method before.
Le Loup.

[img][/img]
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knappinman
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Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 62
Location: Utah
Real Name: Jason Vilos

PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:44 pm    Post subject: references Reply with quote

Micheal,
is the Virginia hunters moccasin diagram from a primary source if so which one. i would like to use it as documentation for my ALRA bibliography. Thanks. Is it available online or did you just scan it in. Thanks
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Michael Archer
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 290
Location: West of Fort Pitt
Real Name: Curt Schmidt

PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How d' ye!

Alas...someone else will have to jump in and be of help...

Mark Baker and I had discussed this about 15 years ago after he found the reference. He sent me the illustration from the book and the sketch.

I had the book and referenced in that most modern but vulnerable place- my computer. Several years ago a virus got through the Fancy Schmancy Virus Proof Norton Security Utility and "corrupted" thousands of stored images and reference file folder material.

Sorry, but hopefully someone else from the First Golden Era of Longhuntering still has it.

Michael Archer

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george kevil
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Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Az.
Real Name: George Kevil

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:45 pm    Post subject: Shoepac Reply with quote

Michael,
I found it. Your moc that is.
Several years ago I copied everything. I too lost it from a virus but I also made hard copies. I think this is what your looking for. It describes your moc.

Taken from the AMERICAN ANTHROPOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION (MEMOIRS, 3 HATT) 178468 U.S.N.M. ,page 153-155, is a mocassin atrrributed to a hunter from Morgantown.
There is a broad description of the moc that I can't figure out how to put a copy on here. And I'm not good typer. This took all afternoon.Maybe my kid can send it this weekend.
George
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Bovine Scatoligist
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could I get a copy also once you figure it out? Thanks.
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Okwaho
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Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 215

Real Name: Tom Patton

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:16 am    Post subject: Re: Double-sole moccasins. Reply with quote

Le Loup wrote:
Thanks. I have 4 pairs of moccasins, as I wear moccasins all the time. I found it easier to sew another sole onto my centre seam moccasins than make a pair of shoe-packs.
I have sewn a double sole on before of course, but not with this method before.
Le Loup.

[img][/img]


For those of you who sew a second sole on their moccasins when building them here is a cite on the same from the early 18th century:

"Their shoes, when they wear any,are made of an entire piece of Buck-Skin;except when they sew a piece to the bottom,to thicken the Soal. They are fasten'd on with running Strings,the Skin being drawn together like a purse on the top of the Foot, and tied around the Ankle. The Indian name for this kind of shoe is Moccasin.

"The History and Present State of Virginia In Four Parts" MDCCV [1705], by Robert Beverly, PP.162-164.
Robert Beverly lived in King and Queen County in the tidewater area of Virginia


Tom Patton

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Michael Archer
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hallo!

Thanks George Lad!

Michael Archer

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george kevil
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Joined: 24 May 2007
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Real Name: George Kevil

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK the rest of the story,

The mocassin is more of a one piece pattern, simple center design, but with "wrap around" flaps being an extension of the sides. What apppears different is that the seam for the toe and instep, and the scam for the back of the heel, are sewn with a leather thong. This eliminates the need for gathering or puckering at the toes as well as a "tab" at the rear of the heels.
The moc is well made with a laced rear heel seam that does not go all the way up the sides (flaps). The upper or flaps are not intended to be worn folded down as exspected, but rather around with a leather thong and leather button type arrangement to hold them closed( if folded down they would drag on the ground for being too long).Slightley below the ankle is a slit on both sides for a leather thong towrap around the ankle tp hold the whole thing in place.
The moc is made with the smooth grain side inside and the flesh (fuzzy) outside- seeming to indicate "Whiteman leather."

George( too much for one hand typing)
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