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VERY IMPORTANT TO ALL GUN OWNERS - READ AND ACT!
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Capt Mike
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:55 pm    Post subject: Lloyd Reply with quote

I am impressed to see Lloyd stand firm on his pro-life stance,,and that INCLUDES being against the DEATH penalty. As a Catholic, no matter how my blood impulse might say,,,DEATH....I must hold to my faith, and believe, that ultimately , that power does not belong to man, but only to God.
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Okwaho
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Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 215

Real Name: Tom Patton

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lloyd, thanks for the kind words and as a "sports model Catholic "{Anglican}. I can certainly understand your position on the two areas you mentioned. As for the death penalty, it is a really thorny issue. I have some real problems with it based on several factors. First is the disproportionate method of its implementation especially in the case of the poor and minorities. Second is the growing number of cases involving DNA evidence proving innocence as well as miscarriages of justice such as the Lionel Geter case in Texas and the recent Duke University cases resulting in the disbarment of a DA.These defendants were absolved of wrong doing but what if they had been executed and more and more states are shortening the length of time for appeals including the introduction of new evidence such as DNA.Third is the often seen poor representation of the poor and minorities by young and sadly inexperienced attorneys.I have practiced law for 46 years and have never tried a capital case yet I can imagine a situation in which I would be appointed as defense counsel to the detriment of my client. There is an old saying, "Doctors pay money damages for their mistakes, criminal defense lawyers see theirs in the gas chamber".Fourth the death penalty appeals to one of our deepest and basest human emotions- the thirst for revenge.Many of us totally reject the possibility of rehhabilitation yet it does happen. I fully realize that there are crimes of such a heinous nature that our collective conscience is shocked beyond belief. We presently have one of these with four defendants awaiting trial in Knoxville. Finally we have the problem of the mentally defective and challenged defendants being executed, can young children be far behind?. The old McNaughton rule used by many states based on old English common law requires only that the defendant know the difference between right and wrong no matter how insane or how driven by an irresistible impulse {the Durham rule} before we put him or her to death.One need only look at the horrors of post partem depression to see a situation involving unspeakable acts by a mother unable to control herself.

Yes,folks there are problems with the death penalty. It ain't as simple as some on the far right would have us believe.I think I have gone along far enough but I just saw a chance to expound on a thoroughly thorny issue that bedevils our society.
Tom Patton.


Last edited by Okwaho on Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Morgan
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 184
Location: Arkansas
Real Name: Morgan Hodkin

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This being a very "thorny" issue I will only make one comment on firearms legislation. Regardless of any legislation passed by the federal and or state governments, there are methods through individuals whereby "any" person can obtain firearms.

The old saying "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" was and still is true. I hope never to have to use a gun in defense of myself, family and home, but would if the need ever arose. Legislation can only create the parameters to keep honest men law abiding....lawless men will always be lawless.

While I sometimes agree and sometimes disagree with the decisions that are made in our elected legislatures, I try to remember that we have elected these men and women to do a difficult task. I can voice my opinions best through the exercise of my vote. Inflamatory words about any issue accomplish nothing. Insanity breeds insanity.

"Blessed are the peace makers, for they shall be called the Children of God.

_________________
"It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains." Patrick Henry (1736 - 1799)
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Capt Mike
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:23 pm    Post subject: Peacemakers Reply with quote

Peacemakers,,,Indeed,,this give me pause for thought.

I think,,I shall,,,,consider my Colt Single Action Army a ..Peacemaker.

I'm one of Gods wee children that is totally confused by this,,very vague bombardment of legislation...

and most likely to come out pissed off on the other side.

Capt Mike *who is trying HARD to refrain ...from,,well,,showing a total lack of decorum on this subject
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Morgan
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 184
Location: Arkansas
Real Name: Morgan Hodkin

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I to admit confusion over the direction that our legislature takes many times....while giving them respect for their position, I feel that many times my rights are trampled underfoot. I do not consider my right to keep and bear arms a God given right, but it is a right granted to me by our Constituition and therefore in my opinion inviolate (or should be) by any act of congress.

My previous disertation was not to intended stifle discussion but simply to dissuade differing opinions from erupting into violence.

While giving them the benefit of the doubt, I doubt any "real" benefit to myself of fellow gun owners will come of this legislation.

I will strive to remain civil, until such time that the tree of liberty must be refreshed......

_________________
"It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains." Patrick Henry (1736 - 1799)
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Gabriel
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my childish take: Blaming guns for crime is like blaming spoons for making Rosie O'Donnell fat. Let's do spoon and drivethru control if we're really worried about folks dying, Ja? We used to suffer from crimes. Now we suffer from laws. Gads, there's a million slogans out there, and millions of folks that are fat dumb and happy as long as there's a fridge full of food and the cable doesn't get cut off. Lloyd, me and thousands of others saw to it that those folk could have a TV dinner every night and not be starving and homeless. I don't even acknowledge "An American who has been "inconvenienced". What, your juicer broke?!

The white heterosexual meat eating Christian men who built this country are not just rolling over in their graves, they're spinning like freaking propellers!

I might have been born at night, but even if I was born last night, I had all day to look around.
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captchee
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Joined: 07 Jun 2007
Posts: 256

Real Name: charles starks

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

we also elect folks that will supposedly uphold the will of the people and protect the constitution not go off helter-skelter on some tangent based on money and a squeaky wheel .
When the politicians of BOTH parties stop doing that ,. Stop fighting like grade school children among themselves then I will give them the respect that their elect office should deserve .

Having more laws such as this which frankly IMO has a very broad interpretation only serves to muddle the pool .
Folks now days cant even clearly read the 2nd amendment with out putting their own interpretations on it . She is written pretty clear to me .
My point is that if the constitution isnít crystal clear to those not only in politics but also appointed to the judicial bench , then how long will it be before laws like this are also stretched ?

Who was it that said : a great civilization does not fall from without tell it has crumbled from within ?
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Pathfinder
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congressional approval is at 14%...the lowest ever! With immigration at the forefront of the debate does anyone really think politicians care what "We the People" think?

Our Founding Fathers rebelled against a lot less!

Pathfinder
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Morgan
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 184
Location: Arkansas
Real Name: Morgan Hodkin

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taking into account the words of Jefferson.....do you think that the founding fathers foresaw a time in the future of this country when rebellion would once again become necessary for the populace to regain control?

Just radical rambling.....

_________________
"It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains." Patrick Henry (1736 - 1799)
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Sieur Phillipe Chenier
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may come down to another revolt. Particularly when our elected leaders on both sides of the fence are ignoring the American people as is the case with the current immigration bill.

I disagree about the vagueness of this piece of legislation in fact the NRA-IRA has work very hard to eliminated a vagueness. The vagueness comes from groups that twist things and make up BS. Those groups, although well intention are just as bad as the liberal radicals spreading crap 9/11 was all created by George Bush.

We now I think I will go practice my shooting techniques prior to work. Remember everyman a rifleman! Learn how to shoot well!
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Capt Mike
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:08 pm    Post subject: puzzled Reply with quote

Puzzled ?

I am.

I would respectful submit my experience with this latest legislation concerning firearms.

I have avoided news on the matter, knowing ahead of time that the media loves gun laws.

I have only read what Gun Owners of America (semi-clear) and the NRA (clear as mud) have emailed me about this legislation about the law.

I don't think THEY even know the final specifics and possible application of the laws will be in this proposed bill ,once the politicians and lawyers are done courting it.

I'm not saying the NRA has erred. I'm just saying,,that this bill is not clear, if it was, there would not be so many 'I 'think' this will be the 'case', or 'I hope this will be the case' statements.

All I wish,... that it was,,,'you will be able to do this',,,'you will be restricted from doing that'...precise, clear, and in a way that leaves little to have the citizens guessing.

At least then , when contacting a Senators office or Congressman's office, one would not have to beg for clarity, but could state their opinion knowing how the land lay on the proposition.

Capt Mike *wearie of watching the shell game
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Pathfinder
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lloyd,

How badly we need another T.R. !

Pathfinder
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captchee
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Joined: 07 Jun 2007
Posts: 256

Real Name: charles starks

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morgan wrote:
Taking into account the words of Jefferson.....do you think that the founding fathers foresaw a time in the future of this country when rebellion would once again become necessary for the populace to regain control?

Just radical rambling.....


yes i most certianly think they did
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Morgan
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 184
Location: Arkansas
Real Name: Morgan Hodkin

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that they would be apalled to see how the document which they penned has been ammended, diluted and bastardized almost beyond recognition

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"It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains." Patrick Henry (1736 - 1799)
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Capt Mike
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:44 pm    Post subject: yep Reply with quote

AMEN
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