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Lead ladle
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badWind
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that last pound of mould-ladle, could be a POUND of jerk (guaranteed food-not possible hunted food)
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GreyWolf
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 88
Location: Southern Rockies
Real Name: Chuck Burrows

PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
and WHY carry the extra weight


Because it's DOCUMENTED that at least some of those from the past that I choose to emulate did............your mileage may of course vary.......
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Rod L
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Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 226
Location: the Forks of the Yellowstone and Missouri
Real Name: Rod Lassey

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gotta go with Chuck and Mike on this one----so much depends on what you are doing, and where you are. If you were in the western fur trade, you might get resupplied once a year, maybe twice if you came near a fort. Otherwise, if you didn't have a particular item with you, you didn't have it at all. There are plenty of references and journal entries of guys running out of lead--and having to shoot stones, breaking the brass mountings from their rifles to pound into balls, etc. The only way they could prevent this happening to them was to carry enough lead (and powder, too) to last at least a year.

Now, for myself, I carry my mould, ladle, and sticks of lead in my packs. I'll mould up 20-30 balls at a time, then put the tools back into the packs. By the way, I tend to only mould balls when I'm out, sitting around the campfire in the evening. For what I do, it's the historically correct thing to do. That's when I carry my rifle, by the way. If I've got my NW gun, then I have no qualms about moulding up balls at home to carry out in the field, as they could have been purchased in ball form at the trading post or rendezvous. Quirky, I know, but it works for me---just the mind-set I have.

Rod

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Michael Archer
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 290
Location: West of Fort Pitt
Real Name: Curt Schmidt

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How d' ye!

My all time favourite interpretation was a lad a few years ago who took his cast balls, hammered them flat, pierced a hole through their centers, and neatly and conveniently connected them on a cord like a pearl necklace.

That way, they rode and carried better in his shooting bag.

But IMHO...

I could never quite agree with the practice, as I have a hard time seeing the value in taking ready-to-use balls and making necklace beads out of them in order to be able to recast them into ready-use-balls (other than for the joy or historical experience of "running balls" in camp.)

David Wright and I had a discussion once question why a hunter who was going to be out for a very short or limited time would not just leave his mold and "ladle" safely and conveniently at home in his cabin rather than taking it afield in his bag.

Others' mileage will vary...

Michael Archer

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D.S. Bradshaw
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Joined: 19 Apr 2009
Posts: 208
Location: Middle Waters, USA
Real Name: D. Scott Bradshaw

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, taking a pound of jerk if you are only going out for a day hike makes about as much sense as taking a pound of lead, How long and how far are you going? I think I pointed out that I do agree with that aspect. A day hunt wouldn't require it. On the other hand, I tend to keep all my stuff together at all times to avoid un-packing and re-packing and possibly forgetting something. Again, for me the weight is not an issue at all. Thats why it's called a shooting pouch by many. you're supposed to use it to carry necessities.

Finding images is another story. I haven't had time yet to go a-looking, but common sense tells me that if I have a mold, I need a ladle. If I can compact things enpough to carry comfortably in my bag at all times, that is a GOOOD thing.
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Hiparoo
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Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 78

Real Name: Mitch Post

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you "ultra-light backpacking" or are you trying for historical accuracy? 2 different mind-sets!! Too many folks try to combine the two and with a modern mind-set, tend to think modern(if they'd a had it, they'd a used it or done it this way,etc)....personally, I'd rather have a mould/ladle/lead than "extra" food...Lewis and Clark never ran out of ink/paper and POWDER/LEAD...

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Francois Labiche
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Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 164
Location: Western shore of the Mississippi below St Louis
Real Name: Al Puknat

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carrying lead bars, a mold and a ladle on a "Hunt" makes about as much sense as carrying seperate containers of Sulfer, and salt peter, making your own charcoal, and then mixing them together into powder just before you load.

There is already 'enough' work to do on a hunt, without adding another task (running balls), which could be easily accomplished during evenings, safe at home after tending to fields and livestock.

But JMHO. Carry the fixins if you wish, I will carry the bullets and leave the fixins at home.
F.

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DELETED
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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badWind
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bradshaw.. where did I say ANYTHING about a day trip?????
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Pathfinder Ted
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Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 162
Location: Beautiful Tip of Michigans Thumb!
Real Name: Ted Jayson

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a bag and fixin's for each gun including the mold and ladle. Not a big deal to have it with me and sometimes I like to run balls while hunting when things are slow or it's a nice day or I just feel like it. I do this stuff because I like it and it feels right to do compared to modern hunting.
Just my two cents before inflation and discounts.

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D.S. Bradshaw
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Joined: 19 Apr 2009
Posts: 208
Location: Middle Waters, USA
Real Name: D. Scott Bradshaw

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

badWind wrote:
Bradshaw.. where did I say ANYTHING about a day trip?????


No offense. I was just trying to make the connection between substituting carrying lead for carrying jerky on a short hunt or whatever. anyway; Why would I be carrying jerky in my shooting pouch?

RodL: why would I carry my lead and ladle and mold in my pack and not my shooting bag if I'm going to carry one at all? Maybe I'm missing something or misunderstood badwind and RodL. These things makes no sense. I think I am honestly confused gentlemen. help me out here.

Personally I think if we are talking trekking here, having the means to survive for long periods on hand at all times, even if you only planned for a short trip is the goal, is it not? I believe that "leave it behind" is a modern mind-set. the belieif that ready-made ball was always readily available is interesting too.

What would the 18th century man be thinking of? "How heavy is it?" or "How will I get by without it?" Just my thoughts.
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badWind
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or perhaps he was thinking "why carry a mould, when I can make ball at home/camp and just carry that ??? why carry crap I don't need???"
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Rod L
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Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 226
Location: the Forks of the Yellowstone and Missouri
Real Name: Rod Lassey

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a clarification---when I say packs, it's because I do western fur trade. My packs are on my horse---or in the boat, if I'm going by water. I don't carry the ladle, several pounds of lead, and mould on my person at all times. I do take them with me (in the packs) when I'm headed out into the hills or down the river, even if I know I'll never fire all the balls in my bag---just that mindset thing again. They were carried along, so I bring them, but not in the shooting bag. It's just what works for me.

I go into this with the thought that there isn't any cabin to come home to, and resupply is a long ways--and a long time--away. I suppose if I were separated from my packs, then I'd end up like James Clyman, who trudged down the Platte to civilization trying to make the 11 or so balls he had last the entire trip. Or Thomas Fitzpatrick, who followed Clyman down the Platte by just a few days, and was reduced to breaking the brass mountings off his gun and beating them into balls.

As I mentioned before, when I'm carrying my NW gun, I have no problem just carrying all my lead in ball form , as the balls could be purchased in bulk at any trading post, unlike rifle balls.

Rod

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...yet in a Short time they become disgusted with our manner of life...and take the first good Opportunity of escaping again into the woods, when there is no reclaiming them.
B. Franklin, 1753
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D.S. Bradshaw
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Joined: 19 Apr 2009
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Location: Middle Waters, USA
Real Name: D. Scott Bradshaw

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm. I suppose if he doesn't need one he wouldn't have one to begin with? I'm looking at this from a frontiersman/trekkers perspective, not a sit-at-home townsman type out hunting for sport, or a farmer adding some meat to the table fare. Home is pretty much wherever I am at the time. If I have a cabin or camp, I might choose to leave stuff behind, but I run the risk of losing it to war-parties or un-scrupulous others who may find it. This is what I mean by modern mind-set interfereing with practical thinking of the 18th century. We get pretty comfortable with all the conveniences around us.
I encourage you to read accounts of the era the original post inquired about. When places like Boonesborough and Harrod's and others came under seige, how many times is it written they had to send runners for powder and LEAD? And they had to "run ball" a lot. I like to learn from the mistakes of others and try not get caught un-prepared in a sudden change of situations. I've been on many woodswalks where scenarios occur that stick in your head when you "die" because you didn't have a simple tool that you left back in camp because; "I won't need that just for this."

Again, just sharing my thoughts on why one would/should for trekking gear purposes. If I am wrong about the goals of creating the most effective and practical trekking kit for all situations, my appologies for the confusion.

I found this how-to article while browsing the topic. It is a pretty good plain-spoken article, but i really like his ladle. ot a documented one unless he got it from a smith that made it from an original. Anybody recognize the work?

http://members.aye.net/~bspen/runningball.html
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badWind
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are the chances of losing your gear to a raiding party while your not home as opposed to a flipped canoe, or a snotty horse, or ???????
I don't think there is ONE answer to this today, just as I don't think Everyone did the exact same thing or thought the same thoughts 100 or 200 years ago, we are and always have been a nation of 'free thinkers'...
I run ball at home, sometimes over my brazier and cast ladle, sometimes in a bottom drop electric pot, If I'm going out for 2 hours or 20 days, I carry more than enough ball, it's just 'My Way'....
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