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Winter moccasin patterns
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copperfeather
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Real Name: Bob Norment

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:54 am    Post subject: Winter moccasin patterns Reply with quote

Does any one have any good winter moc. patterns i am not happy with the one that i have and I need a new one. I want the kind that I can wrap around my legs to keep the snow out.

thanks, Copperfeather
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Michael Archer
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 290
Location: West of Fort Pitt
Real Name: Curt Schmidt

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How d' ye!

Depending on whether a regional style of mocassin is desired by your Mental Picture or impression.persona or not...

You can take a "summer" mocassin pattern and simply make a "winter" mocassin out of it by:

1. going to thicker "leather" or "hide"
2. enlarging the pattern to go over a summer pair of mocassins or to go over a woolen liner or oversocks
3. extending the uppers or flaps to go higher up the calf than on the "summer" pattern.

Some lads modify the so-called "shoepack" style, while others modify "inserted tongue centerseams," "pucker toe," or "soulier de boeuf" type mocassins.
Just one possibility...

Michael Archer

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Hawkeye
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Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 473
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Real Name: Darylee Foertsch

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

absolutely.
When I make shoes for people, I use a pattern made directly from their foot and whatever they will be wearing.

I make my own winter mocs for myself. I've not found it worthwhile to make them for others. Here is how I make my own winter mocs...

To make one for yourself, and to keep from destroying your undershoes and socks....

foot pattern...lower section

Put on whatever you are going to use as undperpinnings on your foot and leg....i.e. wool socks, summer mocs, mocs made from sheepskin, wool blanket socks/leggins, modern shoe pack liners made from wool felt, etc.

Take heavy commercial grade aluminum foil lay out flat.
Place your foot in the center drawing the foil up and around your foot..
crimp the foil at the stitch lines desired.
mark with your finger where your ankle bones are to either side.
cut out on the stitch line and ankele bone marks.
Your almunimum pattern will sort of look like a moc pattern at this point, only larger and no uppers.

Trace this bootie pattern to paper leaving the desired thickness needed for the seam...this depends on the leather you will be using, and if a welt will be used.

Uppers

If you want uppers, they can be added to the pattern.
Lay the pattern with the heel closest to you and the toes forward, away from you.
To either side, left and right horizontally from the pattern you will be sketching a 1/2 pattern for each side of the upper.

Extend the flaps to either side of the foot pattern to the length from the ankle to the top of the desired boot height. I suggest adding an inch just in case...
Don't forget the seam allowance at the back, and what you want to overlap to the front. Or, make them wide enough to overlap in both directions.
I advise making one come around the front longer than the other.

If you want tops longer than crew sock height 4 to 6 inches, it may be easier to take the foot pattern, then add a top to that. This makes it necessary to have a seam running horizontally around your ankle, but eliminates the need for one up the back of the leg.

The method of pattern and construction really depends on what materials are available. i.e. how big are your pieces?

Here in Ohio it is wet. ...wool is a must. sheepskin though not traditional for native is almost a must. Just make certain to turn them inside out and thrououghly dry once home.

Keeping the outter leather is imporant as well as having plenty of inner blanket stockings. Packed away dry..
Always put dry socks on prior to turning in for the night.

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Rod L
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Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 226
Location: the Forks of the Yellowstone and Missouri
Real Name: Rod Lassey

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Research what is the correct pattern for the era and area you portray. Styles varied tremendously by time and region.

As I'm on the northern plains, I use an enlarged side seam mocassin, and make plenty of flap to wrap my ankle up a ways. I used to have a pair of hair-in buffalo mocs--very warm until wet, then near impossible to dry. They worked great in very cold dry conditions, though.

Rod

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KarlK
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Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 287
Location: Grand Portage, Minnesota
Real Name: Karl Koster

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:50 pm    Post subject: Winter Mocs Reply with quote

I agree with Rod 100%.
If you do upper Great lakes, then Issac Walter's article and pattern on winter footware in a past OTT is what you'll want.
Karl
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Kentuckian
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Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 45

Real Name: Ben vonDielingen

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All good points so far. One other thing I've discovered is that when they get wet (and they will, they will) the heavier leather takes MUCH longer to dry. I prefer the same leather out of which I make my regular mocs, but improve insulation by adding more wool soles to the liner(s) or adding more socks, etc. As mentioned, packing away spare socks/liners or even a second pair of mocs for while at camp is a great idea.
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Isaac
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Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 289
Location: Ouisconsing, Pays d'en Haut
Real Name: Isaac Walters

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:07 am    Post subject: Re: Winter Mocs Reply with quote

KarlK wrote:
I agree with Rod 100%.
If you do upper Great lakes, then Issac Walter's article and pattern on winter footware in a past OTT is what you'll want.
Karl


I agree... he he he he

Isaac

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copperfeather
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Real Name: Bob Norment

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the help I think that I found what I was looking for, I like the idea of using the tinfoil though.
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Hawkeye
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Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 473
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Real Name: Darylee Foertsch

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

copperfeather wrote:
Thanks for the help I think that I found what I was looking for, I like the idea of using the tinfoil though.


you are welcome...

BTW, keep in mind that the innulet used seal skin rawhide well oiled for their outer coats. This kept them warm, dry, and wind proof.

I remember hearing a tale that the coat so filled with air that it could keep a hunter afloat long enough to get back into the boat/kayak

Somthing you can do a web serch for... LOL

_________________
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Empty pockets never held anyone back. Only empty heads and empty hearts can do that.óNORMAN VINCENT PEALE
If interested in American Co-Masonry; http://www.co-masonry.org/
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Jean-Paul
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Real Name: Bob Norment

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of wet feet. I dont have winter mocs yet but I'm planning on making them. I understand how your feet can be damp and dry what with layes and all but do you bring a cloth or something to dry off your feet before you sleep? I know its an odd question lol....
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Jean-Paul
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Real Name: Bob Norment

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Kentuckian;
As mentioned, packing away spare socks/liners or even a second pair of mocs for while at camp is a great idea."

neaver mind, thats a much better idea. lol

merci
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Okwaho
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Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 215

Real Name: Tom Patton

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jean-Paul wrote:
Speaking of wet feet. I dont have winter mocs yet but I'm planning on making them. I understand how your feet can be damp and dry what with layes and all but do you bring a cloth or something to dry off your feet before you sleep? I know its an odd question lol....


I will be wearing my Cree style brain tanned moose winter mocs at Deerfield in Feb. and will take about 4-5 pair of regular mocs with me. The problem is not with cold weather or even snow although the high tops help, it is with the melting slush which permeates the leather. and makes for wet feet. I will be wearing a pair of inner mocs made of braintan moose and lined with wool.I will also do what modern Cree and other Natives of upper Canada do and that is to wrap the inner mocs with garbage bag plastic.I realize that such a practice is not historically authentic to the period BUT I learned from being there in 2004 when I was plagued with wet mocs and feet.Socks which pull the moisture away from the feet help somewhat but not nearly enough.
Heresy is one evil but wet feet are worse.
Tom Patton

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Hawkeye
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Joined: 18 May 2007
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Real Name: Darylee Foertsch

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okwaho wrote:

......... it is with the melting slush which permeates the leather. and makes for wet feet. .......... wrap the inner mocs with garbage bag plastic.I.....Tom Patton


and wet feet can mean frostbit feet before you know it...

Same problem here in Ohio...wet... I do the same.. just pretend it is oiled seal and go with it.

Seal gut that is...finally found the sourse..here is a description paraphrased;

Parkas are made from the intestines of sea mamals.
The intestine is harvested washed, peeled and scraped.
It is then tied shut at each end. Prior to tying the second end, it is inflated and put in a safe place to dry.
This is the historic variation of gore-tex.. The strips are waterproof and yet breathe letting humidity escape.
Used sewen into strips either horizontally or vertically to make waterproof over-parkas, hats, bags and windowpanes. The stitches are different and is made in such a way as to remain waterproof.

When used as an over-parka the sleves and hood are tied with drawstrings. When in a kayack, the bottom hem is sewn to the top of the kayak.

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http://www.muddyflint.com/ http://muddyflinttrades.com/
Empty pockets never held anyone back. Only empty heads and empty hearts can do that.óNORMAN VINCENT PEALE
If interested in American Co-Masonry; http://www.co-masonry.org/
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david72
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Real Name: Bob Norment

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I agree with Rod 100%.
If you do upper Great lakes, then Issac Walter's article and pattern on winter footware in a past OTT is what you'll want.
Karl.


Hi guys. Interesting reading as allways. Can you please explain to this stupid swede where to find that article? I do not know what you mean by OTT? Thanks/ David from Sweden
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Rod L
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Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 226
Location: the Forks of the Yellowstone and Missouri
Real Name: Rod Lassey

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OTT stands for On The Trail--it's a magazine published by Jason, the owner of this forum. Good mag, with some great contributors--I highly recommend it.

Rod

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...yet in a Short time they become disgusted with our manner of life...and take the first good Opportunity of escaping again into the woods, when there is no reclaiming them.
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