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Pocket Fire Striker Kit

 
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LRB
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 260

Real Name: WICK ELLERBE

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:12 pm    Post subject: Pocket Fire Striker Kit Reply with quote

Haven't made of of these in a long time, but needed a new one. The leather pouch is 3" x 2 3/4" of 4oz carving leather, stained with light brown Tandy oil dye, and sewn with linen thread. The file decorated striker is 1095 steel, secured with a 3/32" steel rod, and peened on the ends. Inside is a small tinder tube unit and a large musket flint. Period correct for 19th c. and maybe 18th c. Hope you enjoy a look.




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trent/OH
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Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Posts: 43
Location: Southwest Ohio
Real Name: Trent Wren

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's finer than frog hair, split 3 ways and sanded on both sides!
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Paul C. Daiute
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Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 145
Location: Fort Western, On the Kennebec in Mayne 1740s-1760
Real Name: Paul C. Daiute

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
Very nice work!
I'm interested in your documentation for such an item, can you refer me to any other existing examples or period descriptions or images for the 19th or 18th century?
Thank you in advance.
Regards, Paul
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LRB
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 260

Real Name: WICK ELLERBE

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Paul. I am a little surprised that you seem to know nothing of these striker kits. They have been discussed on the FF board more than once. I am no expert on them myself, but Chuck Burrows could give you some info on their history. The pic below is from a 19th c. catalog. I believe Chuck knows at least the approximate time of the catalog. I believe it is from the second quarter, but am not sure. From what I have read, they are thought to have originated in the orient, spreading to the middle east, then on to Europe as the English spread their empire through that region. As to the 18th c. American colonies, I would think their presence to be possible, but have seen no direct mention of them myself. As to 19th c., I did read that Kit Carson wore one around his neck, Sorry, but I cannot recall the source of that info. If you do a search of "antique fire striker purses" you can see many old originals, but all seem to be Mideast or Oriental.


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bob miller
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Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 129
Location: Sharbot Lake,Ontario
Real Name: Bob Miller

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for that explanation. Living here north of Lake Ontario, and my interest directed to the 17th and 18th Centuries, I can honestly say that I have never seen one of those anywhere other than new productions. I certainly appreciate the workmanship. but as far as historical representations here, I wouldn't be comfortable using one. Perhaps mid 19th C , { Metis ? } would be a possibility , but I still don't recall ever seeing one. I'll have to look further.
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LRB
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 260

Real Name: WICK ELLERBE

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a post by Chuck Burrows and a reply concerning Kit Carson's striker kit. Certainly not hard documentation, but close enough for most to accept their existence in America, in the 19th c. at the least. If in fact being made in England in the early 19th c., it is not a great leap to assume some of these made in the far East, "may" easily have made it to America before the 19th c., but of course, that is no more than speculative thinking, and is no warrant for their use by 18th c. reenactors, or in 18th c. living history events. Their use would be up to those managing the event.


Chuck Burrows
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Sep 22, 2013 at 2:58pm

Quote
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Post by Chuck Burrows on Sep 22, 2013 at 2:58pm

Somewhere I have seen this pouch used by Carson - it's the type where the bag and striker are in one piece with the striker attached to the bottom of the bag? Due to CRS I can't seem to find the image - any help is most appreciated?

The pouch I'm talking about is similar to this one
www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-PRE-CIVIL-WAR-ERA-FLINT-STRIKER-POUCH-FIRE-STARTER-/200918296001?pt=Folk_Art&hash=item2ec7a9e5c1

BTW - this type pouch apparently was first used in Tibet and Nepal, but by the early 19TH century they were being made in England as well - the Brits had been trading with India since the early 17the Century and apparently liked these well enough to reproduce them. IN Carson's case his may in fact have come from The Far East since that trade was an important one to California and the Spanish Colonial SE


kootenai
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Sep 23, 2013 at 10:17am

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Post by kootenai on Sep 23, 2013 at 10:17am

Chuck, I have been to the museum in Rayado and seen the striker pouch, but do not have a photo. I have made some in the style but not benchcopies of the pouch and striker. Do you have any specific questions other than the need for a photo?

Mark Horvat
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GreyWolf
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 88
Location: Southern Rockies
Real Name: Chuck Burrows

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wick - IIRC that image from an English catalog of this type striker pouch dates to 1815-1820?
As noted this type originated in Tibet/Nepal - if you do a search for Tibetan striker pouch or similar you'll find a plethora (have always loved that term after seeing the Three Amigos - it was the word for the day for the Mexican Bandito played by famed director/actor Alfonso Arau) of images.
Also as I noted the West Coast had been dealing with the Far East and India since the late 1700's - sea otter for instance was a major export to China during the early 1800's and the long ships would return with loads of "exotic" goods desired by the Californios.

Also as noted Carson's original is in the Carson museum at Rayado, NM which is on the Philmont Scout Ranch. More info should be available from them and here's the contact info:
http://www.philmontscoutranch.org/Museums.aspx
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Paul C. Daiute
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Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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Location: Fort Western, On the Kennebec in Mayne 1740s-1760
Real Name: Paul C. Daiute

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LRB,
I guess I've just never come across any references to a fire starting purse in my 40 Years of research and reading. I don't read every post on FF.net so no need for surprise. Having said that, I'm not so arrogant or stupid enough to think that I have read it all. I always want to learn something new. Thanks for your response. The pictured item is of quality workmanship. For the time being I'll keep the fire kit I have. The "may be 18th century" does not seem to light any lights in my period of interest.
Regards, Paul


Last edited by Paul C. Daiute on Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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LRB
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 260

Real Name: WICK ELLERBE

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the help Chuck. Your input is always appreciated. Did you ever make that Carson copy of the striker?
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Paul C. Daiute
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Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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Location: Fort Western, On the Kennebec in Mayne 1740s-1760
Real Name: Paul C. Daiute

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuck,
Thanks for your post, research and docuentation seem to always do away with the guess work.
Regarsds to you, Paul
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kopfjaeger
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Joined: 28 Apr 2012
Posts: 136
Location: Pennsylvania
Real Name: Frank Ciletti

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that is really nice. Very well made.

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AxelP
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Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 308
Location: Yosemite
Real Name: Ken Prather

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice repro and nicely documented.

K

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