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Lead ladle
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Tsegoweleh
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:36 pm    Post subject: Lead ladle Reply with quote

oatsayo,
OK, This is really a good thread.
I have been carrying my fire kit in my shooting bag so there isent room for a ball mould.
Do you guys do this? do you carry your fire kit in your pack or on your belt.
If I was to do that it would make room for the mould and ladle.
What do you think?
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Ohio Rusty
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Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 34

Real Name: Rusty Nitsch

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ALWAYS carry my fire kit on my belt. Sometimes I carry two, a small bag with a historical flint striker of my own forging and char around my neck inside my shirt. If I were to lose everything like my gun, forage bag, shooting pouch and horn somehow ... maybe fell in a fast river while crossing, maybe injured and can't get to my gear, etc. I at least would have my fire kit. I could do without alot of things in the woods and still get by, but going without fire and warmth might be the death of me .......
I've used my flinter to make fire, but even lock springs break at the wrong tiime.
Ohio Rusty ><>
Purveyor and Blacksmith
The Ohio Frontier Forge


Last edited by Ohio Rusty on Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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D.S. Bradshaw
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Joined: 19 Apr 2009
Posts: 208
Location: Middle Waters, USA
Real Name: D. Scott Bradshaw

PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I carry a striker in a belt pouch with flint, and another complete dry tinder kit in a canister deep in the pack too. I was wrong on the weight of my bar-lead, They are only 12 oz. cast in a walnut block mold I chunked out myself. I think I can get ten good .570's out of one (not sure on that though). I made my own socket-type ladle too. The .570 mold is a brass Dixie GW. my rifle is a .490 Rapine, but I only have the one ladle so far. I also forgot to list that I keep a brass oiler and extra linen rags in my shooting bag. After I take prom pictures of my son and his girl tonite, I'll lay out my pouch for references.
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KarlK
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Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 287
Location: Grand Portage, Minnesota
Real Name: Karl Koster

PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:56 pm    Post subject: Firekits and shotpouches Reply with quote

Ya know shot pouches and fire kits are little written about in most journals. And lead even less it seems. It truly depends on persona. For me, up in the Western Great lakes/ Canada 1779-1821, I deal with the NW gun almost exclusively, so no ladles, no mold just pre-run balls to obtain from employers. A no brainer for me.
Fire kit, these were personally obtained. Now, to have one in a shooting bag seems odd, ya can start a fire with a gun, why clog the pouch with a kit. Plus my persona was never solo, so having my firekit in a bag is no biggee, bag gets lost, borrow someone elses and try making that fire (try, as in even historically some guys just couldn't get it going at times"...knock on wood this hasn't happened to me in over 20 years).
One can easily document type of lead, type of powder, type of flint to be used, type of ball and shot sizes etc.. Type of rag, type of wire (pick), here it gets more difficult. other pouch junk even worse..oilers, chargers (measures), compass, springs, vices etc...)

I am just finishing an article where I document my flint shape color design, powder choice, wire choice etc.. research wasn't easy, but not hard either.

Here are some images:

My shooting bag and my "Vital 5"
Lead/Wire/Flints/Rag...and #5 is misplaced in the image, a gun-worm (twist variety)

On the left are two things that "Fell" into the bag before the picture was taken, things always collect in the bag no matter who you are, temporary storage, normally just my "5" are in there. The 2 items, a rabbits foot, carried as a pan cleaner in one journal I thought it would be cool to have one, the guy eventually used it as supplementary food! and a chunk of touchwood found last time out "plinking".



Here is an image of my firekit which is ually in a little bag or fur skipertogan. If in a bag it sits in my duffle, if in the skipertogan (fisher hide) it hangs from my sash.

Here it is sitting on an ugly portmanteau:

L-R: 2 styles of steels most commonly used/found in my area/tinderconk and charred various material/gunflints/burning lens, bit of bark and grasses. I used to haul a tallow candle but it metled and got too messy to deal with.




ah, another image, shows bigger chunk of touchwood and a shelf fungi for amadou production, which I have been recently doubting for much North American use as common, unlike 18th century Europe.


Karl
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Rod L
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Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 226
Location: the Forks of the Yellowstone and Missouri
Real Name: Rod Lassey

PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interestingly, I usually carry a couple of fire kits---the main one is in a bag, and stays deep in my packs. It has everything I'll need in a fairly generously sized bag--charred wood, striker, flint, steel, burning glass, and lots of tinder.

I keep a very small emergency kit in a watertight tin (tested underwater to be sure, and I grease the rim of the lid) in the very bottom of my shot bag. My reasoning for this goes back to Osborne Russel's journal----around what is now the Yellowstone Park region, he was jumped by Indians in the middle of the night. He awoke to see one bounding off with his rifle, others had driven off his horses and had his packs. Afoot, with just his powderhorn and shot bag (which he apparently never took off) he trudged back to Ft. Hall. As I recall (have to look it up) he didn't have his trousers on, either---but he had his shot bag! And he was able to make a fire with what he had in it. Hence my carrying an emergency kit in the shot bag. Never had to use it, but I keep thinking it might just come in handy if I ever capsize in a boat or somesuch thing.

Rod

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...yet in a Short time they become disgusted with our manner of life...and take the first good Opportunity of escaping again into the woods, when there is no reclaiming them.
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D.S. Bradshaw
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Joined: 19 Apr 2009
Posts: 208
Location: Middle Waters, USA
Real Name: D. Scott Bradshaw

PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No luck findin any small ladles definately used for lead casting , so far anyhow, but i did find the following :

http://americanhistory.si.edu/militaryhistory/collection/object.asp?ID=93

Will post my pics tomorrow if I have time.
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KarlK
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Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 287
Location: Grand Portage, Minnesota
Real Name: Karl Koster

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:55 am    Post subject: Lead Ladle Reply with quote

Let me add this. Years back I would run balls on occasion at an event through trial and error I fgured this out. I am talking those "packing small" ladles you use a stick for a handle. The "socket" of the ladle was usually a round socket or twisted/coiled metal, it was in this you placed a green stick. Well, once the stick got by the fire it dried, shrank and then the heavy lead filled ladle would twist and spill. So I took my ladle to a vice and squeezed her a few times till it was a square-ish socket. Then I grabbed a stick, gave her a quick shaving with my knife to square it up and was good to go, no more spilling.
KK
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Mr.Westover
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 40
Location: Salt Lake City
Real Name: Brian Westover

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 11:13 am    Post subject: Ladle Reply with quote

I guess that I should have clarified more in my original quesiton. I can see why many of us here would not carry one as for many personas and events it would not make much sense.
I portray John Sheilds, the blacksmith/gunsmith with Lewis and Clarks Corps of Northwest Discovery. It is well known that they cast thier balls in the field, using the lead cannisters that held their powder. Each cannister weighed 8 pounds and carried four pounds of powder. I am having the Tinsmith at the living history museum I work at manufacture me a lead canister, and I wanted a ladle to go with it and was looking for some period examples to help me make decisions such as handle length and style, possible shape of handle, etc. The question about the folding ladles was kind of a side thought as I have been curious if they are documented. Thanks for all of the great responses

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Tsegoweleh
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 11:28 am    Post subject: Lead ladle Reply with quote

Oatsayo,
IMHO for your impression a forged iron ladle with a long handle would be appropriate.
Not sure wwhen cast iron stuff became common, But as a Blacksmith you would have probably forged your own as opposed to buying a cast one.
Casting Iron was not a common job for most Blacksmiths, but forging would have been a no-brainer.
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Mr.Westover
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 40
Location: Salt Lake City
Real Name: Brian Westover

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:51 pm    Post subject: ladle Reply with quote

Yes the forging is a no brainer, what I was after was perios exapmles I could copy for size, style etc.

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dannyb55
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lead has been around since Rome and before-Pb Plumbium or something like that. Anyhow, you have two choices: thick walled ladle to hold the heat and thin walled to lighten your haversack. I did not have the luxury of a swage block when I made my ladle many years ago, so I made my own bottom swage. I heated up an old piece of wagon axle white hot and cut off a chunk. I tapered the end down enough to drop in my Hardie hole, put it back in the fire and made it white again and propped it back in the hole. Once in place I laid in with and 8 lb sledge until the top was as flat as a table and then switched to a ball pane and pecked the center down to create a spoon swage,
To make a ladle I forged a Penny end on a flat bar , thinned it's neck down like a spatula, and spread it out round and flat. I took another heat and sunk the bowl into the swage until I thought that It would hold enough lead. To finish I swapped ends and drew the handle out and put a comfortable handle on it.
It's not art or a copy but the tools were antiques and the shop nonelectric and I found a similar one in Foxfire 5 later on. I arrived at the same solution with very similar tools as the old Tenn smith so I am happy with it.
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dannyb55
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lead has been around since Rome and before-Pb Plumbium or something like that. Anyhow, you have two choices: thick walled ladle to hold the heat and thin walled to lighten your haversack. I did not have the luxury of a swage block when I made my ladle many years ago, so I made my own bottom swage. I heated up an old piece of wagon axle white hot and cut off a chunk. I tapered the end down enough to drop in my Hardie hole, put it back in the fire and made it white again and propped it back in the hole. Once in place I laid in with and 8 lb sledge until the top was as flat as a table and then switched to a ball pane and pecked the center down to create a spoon swage,
To make a ladle I forged a Penny end on a flat bar , thinned it's neck down like a spatula, and spread it out round and flat. I took another heat and sunk the bowl into the swage until I thought that It would hold enough lead. To finish I swapped ends and drew the handle out and put a comfortable handle on it.
It's not art or a copy but the tools were antiques and the shop nonelectric and I found a similar one in Foxfire 5 later on. I arrived at the same solution with very similar tools as the old Tenn smith so I am happy with it.
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Mike Suri
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Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 6
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Real Name: Mike Suri

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Lead ladle Reply with quote

Hello I know this is quite an old topic but I just found it and thought I might add my thoughts.
I always carry a round ball bag mold in my shot bag for which ever gun I happen to be carrying. The reasons are quite simple. Each gun that I shoot uses a rather odd diameter round ball so even if I was stationed at a Fort (Persona speaking) I would still need to use my own mold for my gun. Also if I remember reading correctly, most longrifles and or plains rifles that were purchased back in the day (1760-1840) would come with it's own bullet mold seeing how each barrel was hand made !
I do carry a small amount of bar lead and a non folding handled ladle in my haversack and or knapsack. I really don't notice the extra weight. At camp (where ever that happens to be !), I enjoy casting a few RB around the camp fire. Really just because it gives me something to do !
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Fitzhugh Williams
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 391
Location: Greenville, SC
Real Name: Fitzhugh Williams

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The people of the 18 century would have been traveling on horseback and would have had extra horses for their supplies, so no problem with a little extra weight.
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