Advice/Photos/Anecdotes for the Pedersoli Brown Bess

[Wahkahchim]

Hi all! We've started studying the Pedersoli Brown Bess, its care, feeding, cleaning, etc. We've made paper cartridges, they all went bang, and now I'm searching for more info. This is part of our study of the Brown Bess in Western and California history, which will culminate in a magazine article. Opinions, advice, hunting anecdotes, photos, most accurate load, anything requested! Thanks in advance!

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Timewalker Guide Service

[CT03]

If your asking about the use of the "Brown Bess" and other British arms out west you might want to look south... Apparently Mexico bought up a bunch of Napoleonic Wars vintage British arms prior to the troubles with Texas... so some of these could also have been arround with units involved in CA revolts... not my area of expertise by a long shot...

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At last he rose, and twitched his mantle blew Tomorrow fresh Woods, and Pastures new

[Wahkahchim]

After lots of research, what I know is that we don't know! I've talked with about six state parks. They all say that the Mexican Army I in California was armed with Brown Besses but that they don't have any genuine proof. The northernmost skirmishes seemed to have involved Californiano lancers using very old Catalan escopetas. But also there's a record of Sutter buying Besses in Hawaii of all places. But then the Russians sold out at Fort Ross and he switched his guards to 1777 Charlevilles. The State of California Parks Service seems to have taken most or all of the historic guns out of the park museums and hidden them. I'm not making this up. I don't know why. I will continue to research.

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Timewalker Guide Service

[Wahkahchim]

And i just miked my Pedersoli Brown Bess: it's a .729. Doesn't that make it a 12 gauge?

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Timewalker Guide Service

[Sanscoeur]

Since Spain and England were adversaries during the subject time period (1770-1800?), and the Brown Bess was still the infantry weapon of choice for British forces, wouldn't it be a better guess that, if Spanish forces in California were using foreign guns, they might have been using Charlevilles?

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Depuis le vin est tiré, il faut le boite.

[Wahkahchim]

Actually the Mexican government bought thousands of surplus Brown Bess muskets, Paget carbines, and Baker rifles from the British, and used them against Texas in 1836 and in the war with the US in 1846. There's lots of talk of them being in California during the war, but I can't find any hard evidence! Anyone got a clue? Thanks.

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Timewalker Guide Service

[CT03]

Back when I used to live up in Joshua Tree... did a round trip up to San Francisco on my motorcycle stopping at the various missions on the way... If my mind is not to foggy... the mission due east of Los Angeles is San Gabriel de Archangel and at the time (2004) had a small museum just down the street with some really interesting origional artifacts. I don't recal if they had any Brown Besses but they did have exhibits on the various revolts that took place to inlclude the governor general's sword.

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At last he rose, and twitched his mantle blew Tomorrow fresh Woods, and Pastures new

[Wahkahchim]

Thanks! I will call them!

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[Pathfinder Ted]

[quote=" The State of California Parks Service seems to have taken most or all of the historic guns out of the park museums and hidden them. I'm not making this up. I don't know why. I will continue to research.[/quote]

The Liberal slant your state has and your suprized they removed those AWFUL WEAPONS of DESTRUCTION?

We have a great facility at the Metro Beach facility and the mural on the wall depicting Cass's landing here on the shore's of Lake St.Claire,not ONE person depicted has a fire arm with them! The person in charge said that since this was a public building,they cannot advocate the use of firearm's! Unbelivable! She also said that since at that time the area was pretty much settled,youno longer needed a gun! And these IDIOT'S are teaching our kid's.

Didn't mean to highjack the thread,sorry.

Is the Pedersolli Bess really an acurate gun to use in your study? I shot one for years and loved every minute of it. Great shooter and VERY accurate. .710 round ball,pillow tick spit patch,85grs2f. 9 deer and countless squirrels fell to her.

It's a beautiful gun,but not being a professer,I've been told it really is a conglomeration of all the styles of Bess's. I recently finished a 1742 model from The Rifle Shop part's and LOVE IT!!

Good luck in your venture and look forward to read what you've learned!

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If you don't like the way the founding fathers formed this country,Thank God they insured you have the right to leave, NOTHING NEEDS CHANGING!

[Wahkahchim]

Here's what has happened in my hunt for Brown Besses in California history: I have seen and photographed the relic remains of a Brown Bess India pattern type one in an archaeological dig of a Spanish Mission. The strata are dated to about 1810-1815.

And this afternoon I just found a Brown Bess on display at a nearby adobe. It is extremely rusted and the stock is broken. The was broken and repaired with nails. This adds to the previously unproven hypothesis that the Brown Bess was in use in California prior to the Mexican War. I don't know the provinence of the gun but it is a long time pre-1900 holding of the Historical Society

It's a type II India pattern, made during the Napoleonic Wars, apparently sold as surplus by the British without being issued to British Line Troops. I can't find any Mexican markings at this time, but that's normal. The flashhole is so enlarged and the frizzen is so worn from use that the gun was certainly fired to the point of disability. If only it could talk.

In the next couple of days I will post photos at "Timewalker Guide Service" on Facebook.

The study and search continue.

:) !!!!!

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Timewalker Guide Service

[Mario]

FYI- The period load for the Land Pattern muskets used a .690" ball in a paper cartridge.

Mario

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[Pathfinder Ted]

ALL land pattern Bess's were the same bore size?

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If you don't like the way the founding fathers formed this country,Thank God they insured you have the right to leave, NOTHING NEEDS CHANGING!

[Wahkahchim]

From what I'm seeing bore size differed rather widely between individual originals. The nominal bore size was .75. As Mario correctly pointed out, the official load was a paper cartridge incorporating a .69 ball. That would have fit virtually all the originals I have studied so far.

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[Pathfinder Ted]

So if I use anything other than a .690 ball in ANY Bess,I'm incorrect?

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If you don't like the way the founding fathers formed this country,Thank God they insured you have the right to leave, NOTHING NEEDS CHANGING!

[Pathfinder Ted]

I have a .770 bore barrel in my 1742 Bess from Colrain,and until now I have been shooting .745 balls very accuratly,so I guess i have to switch to.690's to be P/C,H/C because thats all they EVER issued! Darn it,I was justn getting use to winning too!

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If you don't like the way the founding fathers formed this country,Thank God they insured you have the right to leave, NOTHING NEEDS CHANGING!