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neck knife - patch knife?????????
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do you where a knife around your neck
yes
36%
 36%  [ 17 ]
no
63%
 63%  [ 30 ]
Total Votes : 47

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LRB
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 256

Real Name: WICK ELLERBE

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is little to no documentation for either knife, with the exception of NA use. Pre-cut patches appear to have been the universal norm for rifle use in the 18th c. That's why most rifles had a storage compartment known as a "patch box". They acually did carry patches in them.
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Michael Archer
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 290
Location: West of Fort Pitt
Real Name: Curt Schmidt

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How d' ye!

"The patch knife is a standard part of any rifleman's equipment..."

Not to seem to be snarky, but.. really? In what era? And to what research or documentation (for lads where that might be important)?

Michael Archer

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Michael Archer
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CT03
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Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 254
Location: Arlington, VA
Real Name: Christopher Treichel

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have my patch knife sheath tied to the strap on my possibles pouch... It has about a 2 1/2 inch blade on it and I use it for everything while my belt knife with a 6 inch blade rarely ever gets used.[/img]

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trg11
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Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 188

Real Name: Gene Stebbins

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The patch knife is a standard part of any rifleman's equipment..."

I would also like the references to add to my docums, I have never seen anything of a period nature refering to this topic.
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white savage
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Joined: 17 Aug 2009
Posts: 28
Location: Fort Harrosin, Virginia (New Market Va.)
Real Name: Ben Miller

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends on what I am doing. I do like to have a knife on me around camp without haveing a belt on. most of the time I like to use my belt knife for shooting and not have that neck-knife end up hitting me in the face when I am running down the trail.

Food for thought, chow down.
-Ben Miller

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Dave Muns
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Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 116
Location: Michigan
Real Name: David Muns

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wear a knife in a medium quilled neck case. It was made by Jan Zender and Rochelle Dale. It is a musuem copy of one from the Great Lakes region - Ojibway in nature. I love it and feel quite naked without it. I will not fight anymore to justify my wearing it as a white. My wifes people have very high percentage of Native so I've worked it into my personna around that. This is a touchy subject and I would agree that it was quite uncommon for a white to wear quilled pieces unless they had ties to Natives somehow - as I do.
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Fitzhugh Williams
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Greenville, SC
Real Name: Fitzhugh Williams

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a little bit of everything. A folder seems the best of options, and there were plenty of them around. When I wear my neck knife, I tuck it into my shirt. Keeps it out of the way, and out of sight as well. But my personal choice is a knife carried on my leg secured by the garter. It's a good size, easy to get to, and I don't know I am wearing it. With all the knives I carry, I have no need of a patch knife.
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Okwaho
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Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 215

Real Name: Tom Patton

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave Muns wrote:
I wear a knife in a medium quilled neck case. It was made by Jan Zender and Rochelle Dale. It is a musuem copy of one from the Great Lakes region - Ojibway in nature. I love it and feel quite naked without it. I will not fight anymore to justify my wearing it as a white. My wifes people have very high percentage of Native so I've worked it into my personna around that. This is a touchy subject and I would agree that it was quite uncommon for a white to wear quilled pieces unless they had ties to Natives somehow - as I do.



Rather than make two posts Iwould like to comment on both types of knives. I too would like to see the documentation on patch knives prior to {and I'm being liberal here}the 19th or 20th centuries.I suspect that knives classified as being used specifically for this purpose are more 20th century.This does not mean that there were no "utility" knives as classified by Gordon Minnis in his excellent book, "American Primitive Knives 1770-1870".To accept the idea that a "patch knive" was a "standard part of any rifleman's equipment" conjures the picture of a rifleman engaged in a fire fight such as King's Mountain or other such engagement stopping to pull out a strip of cloth or buckskin and then taking the further time in using his "patch knife"to cut a patch each time he fired his rifle. This is mind boggling not to mention insane.

Now as to the question of neck knives, I have long been on record as opposing the overuse by Whites of certain Native identified items including but not limited to neck knives,silver,and certain quill work.There are ,of course, exceptions such as Couriers du bois,Voyageurs, and those Whites intimately associated with Natives such as havin Native wives. This latter group is is often referred to as "White Indians" and usually includes traders and the like. These exceptions do not include those Whites such as the ubiquitous "long hunters" and others of that ilk.Dave's very thoughtful post would appear to make a strong case for his being what I would call a "White Indian".

I have two neck knives.One has a blade approx. 5 1/2". with a quill wrapped handle and is carried in a quilled sheath ,the other {based on two 17th century knives illustrated in "The Iron Trade-Knife in Oneida Territory" by Gilbert Hagerty} features a 4 1/2" clip pointed blade and a wooden handle.Both knives were made by Ken Hamilton.

I never wear the quilled knife unless fighting or when engaged in a war council or like situation.I consider it as a fighting/scalping knife. I wear the other with its relatively plain sheath {edge beading and red dyed deer hair in metal cones.}in other more mundane situations such as camp activities.

I hope I haven't muddied the waters to excess but I thought these comments needed to be made.As always I welcome any responsible opposing comments.
Tom Patton

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Poor Devil
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Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 46
Location: Yuma, AZ. Via Chula Vista, CA Soon WA.!
Real Name: Pat Hillock

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:45 am    Post subject: patch knife Reply with quote

I have a Dean Hazuka neck knife. I wear it and use it because I like it.

P
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Captain_Cogle
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love my AK-47 but that does not mean I carry it at events with the justification of
"well it shoots and if they had them they would have used them!"

I really dont mean to sound snide or arrogant but a good reason and a good argument are the best forms of justification.
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trg11
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Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 188

Real Name: Gene Stebbins

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This forum is gear toward the re-enacting community and research and PC/HC are high on most peoples list, I like a lot of things that I would not inclue in my 18th century gear.
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Captain_Cogle
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely!

I think every endeavor should be made to make ones self as accurate as possible. Of course we cant all starve ourselves a little and infest ourselves with fleas and lice or some other maladies received from consorting with low women. Naturally some people just dont have the budget to acquire everything that is museum quality but I really cringe at the arguments of

"Well I like it."

"If they had it they would have used it."

"I saw it in a movie."

Besides... Research is fun and when you dont know whats wrong or right ask some one who does! Hard to beat having a fun historical conversation with some one who is willing to share their experienced knowledge with you.

Again I mean no insult to any one and I apologize now if any insult is taken.
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Poor Devil
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Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 46
Location: Yuma, AZ. Via Chula Vista, CA Soon WA.!
Real Name: Pat Hillock

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain_Cogle wrote:
I love my AK-47 but that does not mean I carry it at events with the justification of
"well it shoots and if they had them they would have used them!"

I really dont mean to sound snide or arrogant but a good reason and a good argument are the best forms of justification.


Boy, you sure got me on that one! LOL

Do you always sound that snide and arrogant without trying?

I am in this hobby because I want to , not if you approve or not.
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Captain_Cogle
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I said I never meant any offense. If you choose to take an insult that was not offered then the ugliness lays with you.

Never once did I try to dissuade you from the hobby. If you choose not to be as accurate as possible that is your choice same as if you choose to be offended and insulting.
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Poor Devil
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Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 46
Location: Yuma, AZ. Via Chula Vista, CA Soon WA.!
Real Name: Pat Hillock

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:59 pm    Post subject: neck knife Reply with quote

ANYWAY......I use the neck knife because it is handy. Not as a patch knife.
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