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Blacksmithing beginning
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Hawkeye
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Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 473
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Real Name: Darylee Foertsch

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:04 pm    Post subject: Blacksmithing beginning Reply with quote

I've made just enough c and s hooks to get addicted.
I'ts sort of like crack to an artist I guess.

Now and need to start making some stuff that's in my head.
I'll be making sail hooks and smaller items as well as pole hooks, pikes, shelves and such.
I'd like to make my own fence to go with an antique gate I have.....

My main problem isn't the anvil hammers and tongs, it's the forge.
The historically correct coal is too smelly/dangerous for my 60' wide lot.
Charcoal is out of the question due to it's danger of sparking violently with the blower.

I'm looking to get an economical propane one.
I feel this is a safe alternative in both heat and fume production.
Sort of to a beginning blacksmith as safety glasses is to a shooter.

A friend with a forge suggests a NC Baby
http://www.nctoolco.com/forges2.php
Another friend in Finland suggests it may not be hot enough if I get into hawk and knife making and suggests a two burner.
NC tool also has the Knifemaker forge and shoer's delux.

They all have a small door at the back. I'd just have to have careful planning for constructing the items.....

Thoughts, Ideas, comments?

_________________
http://www.muddyflint.com/ http://muddyflinttrades.com/
Empty pockets never held anyone back. Only empty heads and empty hearts can do that.óNORMAN VINCENT PEALE
If interested in American Co-Masonry; http://www.co-masonry.org/
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GreyWolf
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 88
Location: Southern Rockies
Real Name: Chuck Burrows

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howdy - For propane forges designed for knife and hawkmaking (and other things can of course be done with them) check out
http://refractory.elliscustomknifeworks.com/

Darren is one heck of a nice guy and very helpful in helping you make the right choice.......

hope this helps....
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Don Abbott
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Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 114
Location: East Tennessee
Real Name: Don Abbott

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to get over to www.Iforgeiron.com

Everything you might need to know, and then some.

Don
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Spike
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 8
Location: Roanoke, VA
Real Name: E. Carroll Hale III

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:02 pm    Post subject: Propane forge info... Reply with quote

Go to :

http://p222.ezboard.com/bprimalfires

and check out some of the older threads. There are quite a few guys on there who have built their own propane forges out of all sorts of scrounged goods, and they are more than willing to share their knowledge with you.

Like Chuck said, also check out Ellis Custom Knifeworks....

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Spike
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Runs with scissors.....
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josephprivott
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I second don abbott. that site is great.



I built my gasser. It wasn't hard, and only cost about 80$ to include tools and overpriced materials.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgbKHOUk7dI
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ThreeToedWolf
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:24 am    Post subject: Re: Propane forge info... Reply with quote

Spike wrote:
Go to :

http://p222.ezboard.com/bprimalfires

and check out some of the older threads. There are quite a few guys on there who have built their own propane forges out of all sorts of scrounged goods, and they are more than willing to share their knowledge with you.

Like Chuck said, also check out Ellis Custom Knifeworks....



That is an old link. The new one is

http://primalfires.yuku.com

Come on over and take a look
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Reb
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 10:24 pm    Post subject: Forges and fuel Reply with quote

Hello to all.

My name is Reb and as it sounds I am a Civilwar re-enactor and blacksmith. Hawkeye, I wish I had a lot as large as yours. I live in a townhouse that has an 18 ft wide yard with a 12 x 16 smithy in it.

I have an Ellis 8" horizontal air blown gas forge. Great on gas and will weld at 5 pounds of pressure. Problem is you only have a 4" entry hole. so if you are making anything of any size, it ain't happening. Good for knives and small hawks.

A couple of options are these:

Charcoal does not have the smell of coal and once running smoke can be kept at a minimum. You also won't get the sparking that you think. There no reason to be turning the blower or if electric, having it up that high Also if anyone was to complain about the any smoke, they shouldn't start their BBQ outside.

Coke is what you get from the burning process of coal. You can purchase blacksmith coke as well as commercial from places. This has no odor or smoke attached to it as all sulphur, tar and oils have burned out of it.

If you wish to go with gas, get one with side openings for putting long stock through. Also a door on the front to put bigger hawks in.

I will most likely run coke in my solid fuel forge.
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Hawkeye
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Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 473
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Real Name: Darylee Foertsch

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all.....not ignoring anyone...I"ve just been very busy.
Plus, I don't have internet at the house since about October.

anyway. I did end up in some classes this winter.
I joined SOFA a year and one half ago... great group
They are over there in Troy, O N/ Dayton.

I ended up working with the gang making a bunch of propane forges...I bought one of them.

I am enjoying using it, and will later this evening now it's a bit cooler.
It takes about an hour or two to fully cool off. I just put it and the tank in the wheel barrow back in the garage. To setup, I pull the wheel barrow out, put the in washtub hanging on the fence in the barrow upside down, then position the forge on there....light her up.
I have to get my anvil attached to a permanant stump, but am using it on top of two hawk blocks for now.

I have found the charcoal too sparky. The coal does not disturb the neighbors, but it takes too long to cool, and I have a storage problem...which you can gather by the description above.
I go over to SOFA on Wednesday nights during the winter to do anyting on coal for now.......

My biggest problem at the moment....a neighbor on one side who gets up at 4 am...and on the other who gets up at 4 pm....
It is interesting scheduling forge time where I can pound and make noise.
but I do.
Thanks for all the info.
I also found the following site for some supplies and hardies;
http://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/

Reb, with the smaller place, how do you stow your forge, or is the smithy a permanant building fixture?

_________________
http://www.muddyflint.com/ http://muddyflinttrades.com/
Empty pockets never held anyone back. Only empty heads and empty hearts can do that.óNORMAN VINCENT PEALE
If interested in American Co-Masonry; http://www.co-masonry.org/
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Reb
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hawkeye,

My Smithy is a permanent building that I forge in. It houses a gas forge, a 1909 champion coal forge, welding table, 20" x 5' bench with grinder and buffer, and a bench on the other side with a wood band saw and a metal band saw.

As far as the sleeping neighbor, you might look at changing your anvil to one that doesn't ring such as a Fisher. The other thing you can do is to place rubber between the anvil and stand or to put a large magnet under the horn or heel to reduce the anvil ring.
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Hawkeye
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Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 473
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Real Name: Darylee Foertsch

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, you've got the set...

Honestly, I only have a very small anvil. I'll get a bigger one when I can.

However, with ony about 10' between me and either neighbor's window, I don't have much hope. It is working out OK so far though.

_________________
http://www.muddyflint.com/ http://muddyflinttrades.com/
Empty pockets never held anyone back. Only empty heads and empty hearts can do that.óNORMAN VINCENT PEALE
If interested in American Co-Masonry; http://www.co-masonry.org/
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dannyb55
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coal is the cheapest way to go and propane is the most expensive. Make a forge that is compact. Mine is basically a copy of Diderot's Geologie forge, just a wooden table, 2 foot square and 2 foot high with eighth in thick sheet metal on top and four walls, 8 in left and right, 3 in fore and aft. I used a freight wagon bearing out of a rotten wagon wheel as a tuyere, it blows from the right. A small bellows or a free standing Champion will do the trick. My rig cost 160 bucks complete, Coal costs 225 a ton and Fred bags it up fo 12 bucks a feed sack. Going all out I may burn 4 bucks in 8 hours. The same work with propane will cost maybe half of the price of my forge. The smell of coal is like the smell of gunpowder or a woman, You either like it or find someone else. If the nosey neighbors want to infringe on you freedom, move. Propane is the pyrodex of blacksmithing. or maybe the Knight Rifle.[/b]
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dannyb55
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:26 pm    Post subject: Kayne Reply with quote

The blacksmith's depot will take all of your money. We joke a bit about them at our A B A N A meetings. You want to be a smith? Make all of your tools.
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Reb
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Propane will be a little more expensive, but not as much as you think. My old gas forge would burn a 20lb tank in about 16 hours of forging at 7lb of pressure. The new forge, I can forge weld at 5lbs pressure. Normal forging is around 2lbs of pressure and a 20lb tank can last 3-4 days of 8 hour forging.

Gas can have it's positives. Quick to light and heat up when you need to get something done quickly. Though it will heat your shop quickly and if not properly set to a neutral heat it will scale more and you have more of a problem isolating your heat. But you will not burn your metal in it.

The coal I use I get from my guild a $7.00 a bag/50lb.

Charcoal will be the most costliest as it will cost you mor by volume and burns at a faster rate.

Coke costs a little more than coal and will burn at a hotter rate as you will not have to go through the coking process. With coke, you will need an electric blower to keep it burning.

Until you are more experienced, it would be better to find some used tooling at flea markets or sales. Once you get some expeience and more training then start creating your own tools if you want. Myself, I have someone else create my tooling as my time is spent making product.

Reb
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dannyb55
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why are we so eat up by authenticity when we won't practice an authentic trade in an early manner? Don't give me the economical argument, that's bull. I have made a lot of money with a coal forge and my fire can handle out sized objects.
No reason to buy coke since a coal forge makes it for you while you have a cup of coffee.
Jason, the best training is a couple of good books M T Richardson's Practical Blacksmithing and Alex Bealer's The Art Of Blacksmithing. Bealer founded ABANA and Richardson was the editor of The Blacksmith and Wheelwright Magazine in the 19th century. Every conference that you go to will cover the same territory, or they will only talk about making fences for rich people.
Making your own tools serves three purposes. 1) You get a good tool that fits your hand for almost nothing ,2) you need the practice, 3) it's very authentic. Danny Nye
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Hiparoo
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Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 78

Real Name: Mitch Post

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

get yourself a copy of Joe DeLarondes' blacksmithing book...it has all you need to know...

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